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Speaking in Tongues, Trance Channeling, Corrupted Connections

In the thread, 'Connection Skills -new Spirit Wiki Entry', I encountered something while reading through the bible link.

While it was truly refreshing to see the phrase 'skills and abilities' coined in the NIV version of the scripture, something else was bubbling up emotionally.

It has come up in conversations during the times when insight was provided to a person in need who benefited and responds, 'Hey, God gave you a gift, that's great!' I gently correct that citing it's a 'skill or ability' as 'gifts' denote a preference. At the time I was not quite sure how I began to associate it.

The word 'gifts' mentioned only in this reference gave me a visceral reaction, of which I can trace exactly back to my Pentecostal exposure of speaking in tongues and its accompanied religious specialness from ages 18-25.

With all of that, I still felt a personal responsibility to know with certainty what these tongues mean, thus waiting years and praying for an answer a translation, or SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE SENSE so that people can be spiritually encouraged, why and how. I've asked others how to find out, which equated to absolutely nothing.

Feeling secretly foolish this led to questions to why I even bothered to 'believe' in Jesus, God the Bible,faith, salvation the whole league. It brought me to the conclusion of futility as a question: What good is a gift when one has not been instructed on why it exists, what it is, how it's supposed to work, what's really being said or even how to apply it appropriately, especially when it's supposedly from The Spirit of God?

Similar institutions like these thrive, rely and bet on people not asking questions for fear of compromising faith, whatever that's supposed to mean, offending God, the pastor, the church building, the deacon board, etc., when these people don't really understand fully what 'faith' is or just looking bad in the eyes of the conflagration- I mean congregation.

It only left me with confusion, frustration, headaches, wondering I if made it all of this crap up to fit in, 'look saved', make people happy or to be judged as bonafide spiritual. With the foolishness, repression and long socially isolated state I was in, I left these circles eventually at the behest of my sisters who feared that my 'backsliding' would put me in a worse condition. Repeating the process of seeking answers in other churches after four tries was no longer an option, I stopped attending similar places.

I told no one that I had decided from that point to not let just anything fly out of my mouth until I know what's coming out of it and to give a responsible answer when asked, except to respond this way: 'If god wants me that badly he knows where to find me, and I'll tell Beelzebub y'all said 'hi'.

The Nine Gifts of the Spirit meant nothing to me at that time if I was going play along, pretending to know when I really didn't and no one really cared about giving honest answers unless it went with the theatrics or arguing semantics about the triune Godhead, scripture interpretations, Tyndale's version, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance versions of the same scripture, gender roles, which Apostolic/Pentecostal sect was a better candidate for heaven above those who attended the COGIC and Baptist congregations, who preached the best and how much money the church got after people lined up in droves to out-give others. I was done, done and done with all of it.

Deep down inside I really wanted to know and wanted to connect with God, with all my heart and all of those levels of intent, but that avenue or venue I should say, was of no help and accepted that fact without knowing how long it would be until getting any decent answers, let alone talk about it.

So I gather from this that when you were between the ages of 18 and 25 you went to a Pentecostal Church where you spoke in tongues. Since that time you've been trying to figure out WTF, if it was real, and what it meant. Your search has been complicated by a degree of disjuncture, triggered by the use of the word "gifts" to describe the ability, a word you associate, for reasons, I'd like to get into, with privilege for some and rejection for others.

Is this a fair summary?


-- All you need is love...

Yes, this is a fair summary.

So a couple things here. One, this notion that "gifts." You have a very corrupted notion of what gifts are. Your immediate response to the pentecostal notion of spiritual gifts is to point out that this is unfair because the notion of gifts implies preference and exclusion, like only the worthy, get "gifts." I think these sorts of ideas can be traced to old energy ideologies that teach exclusion, etc. The best example of this is the Santa Claus ideology where kids are taught from a very early age that only the worthy, only the good girls and boys, get "gifts."  Of course, the santa clause ideology is not the only place we learn this. We also learn it in school, with the grading system, in Church, "only the chosen," etc.

I don't have the same association with the notion of gifts. Many years ago we revised our Christmas ritual and rewrote the script. We never told our kids that Santa gave them presents only if they were good. Rather, we simply said that Santa gave them what they asked for. We endeavoured to manage their requests to something that we could handle, financially, but we always tried to use Christmas to say you get what you want. Of course, we also never taught other old energy ideologies of exclusion, being chosen, etc. We also taught the nurturing inclusion of all beings. In our family, we see gifts as somebody everybody has, and everybody gets. It's not an issue of somebody else's preference at all.  It is an issue of finding the "inner core being," the nascent higher self, and encouraging that to develop and express.

I say this only to highlight the old energy ideology behind your notion of gifts. This ideology sets of a moral/intellectual conflict in you that has you rejecting the whole idea of "gifts." You struggle with this at a moral level, which is good on the one hand because there is something wrong with the way you were taught. However, on the other hand it is bad because the conflict makes it hard for you to accept and be open to the enhancement. Everybody who connects receives a "gift." Everybody's talents and abilities are enhanced when they make strong and pure connections.

This is a good thread because it shows the importance of "old energy archetypes" versus "new energy archetypes" and how the old energy archetypes, in this case archetypes that teach exclusion, can impede progress towards stronger connection.

Make sense?


-- All you need is love...

Yes, it makes sense.

I consider this as an answer to one of my many prayers.

I left Pentecostalism because of the hierarchy built into this religious system and was not provided the direction and clarity I needed to use the gift knowledgeably and responsibly, which explained the moral issue. I had gone to a few other churches in that time frame, and met similar results, which gave me no other alternative but to leave it alone and 'shelve it', which was a very wise to do at that age.

Underneath all that nasty ideology I always felt that spiritual matters are not to be trifled with, but didn't understand why, and the reason behind my determined attitude in wanting answers.

Thanks for clarifying why the internal conflicts exist in my receiving the enhancement to Holy Spirit 2.0  from the Beta version, now I'm laughing about the actuality of that!  Soon, I'll get what I've been asking for.

Thinking further, this part is not funny,  is that the System had been aggressively hindering this long needed upgrade of this gift for 2000 years, that's way too long to be in Beta, wtf.

Getting taught wrong creates lots of problems anyway and it's ironic that had I stopped celebrating Christmas along with all of the holidays for a long, long time because of the lack of understanding, except my birthday of course, which are better celebrated now because of the LP.  There could be more old ideologies that remain unchallenged to re-evaluate for either a re-write or toss aside entirely.

Hi R.

Would you mind sharing your thoughts about what the "speaking in tongues" phenomenon is all about, and your experiences with it? I'd also be curious why you refer to it as an upgrade.

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-- All you need is love...

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Excellent response. Thx for that. There is a concept in the New Age movement called trance channelling which is when people shove their bodily ego out of the way and let another monad use the [spwiki]Physical Unit[/spwiki] temporarily. They are generally not aware of what comes through. Though the ones I've seen do it in English, it is possible that speaking in tongues is a form of disordered trance channelling. A connection is forced, but in a toxic manner, with confused expectations about what should happen. This leads to a disordered and corrupted connection that, while representing an authentic spiritual phenomenon (i.e. channelling) nevertheless is messed up and meaningless by the toxic interference and propagandizing that occurs prior, and that shapes and distorts the connect.

What do you think?

Quote from rheaah on August 28, 2018, 2:48 pm

It took me some time to learn how to read religious texts that have old energy and writing styles that need to be in a contemporary format, and realize that the 'fire and brimstone' threats in the name of God's love through the preaching, teachings, and about humanity needing Jesus to be a martyr, religiously sanctioned misogyny, specialness hierarchy of spiritual gifts in the churches, are all nonsense.

Yes. Nonsense. Once you actually read the Bible scriptures, you see that is true. The common Church practice of the priest taking a passage out of context is what allows for all the nonsense to develop and continue.


-- All you need is love...

I agree.

In hindsight having observed similar characteristics New Age circles and based on prior experiences in Christianity, I strongly determined at that time around late 1990s to absolutely have nothing to do with 'trance channeling' because of the lack of awareness in the 'checks and balances' department:

* The channeler has no way of identifying/discerning who/what/which or how many entities is/are temporarily residing in the space made for them and for what purpose, including boundary agreements and expectations made beforehand

* What was actually said (if it lined up with anything grounded, aligned, realistic, most of all helpful/edifying) Even if it were recorded and played back afterwards, how would the channeler respond to it?

* It creates a loss of opportunity in understanding (ie, wth just happened and why?)for the observers to ask questions once the person 'comes back to themselves'.

* If the channeler is either willing or able take responsibility for what occurred in their vessel. for any person to say, 'idk, I just let spirit/it/she/he/them say/do whatever they want or need to say' doesn't seem to cut it.

This is a similar to the Christian circles embracing glossolalia, there is a mix of the 'channelers' with varying spectrum of awareness, personal physical control ranging from very little to lack thereof. To the best of my recollection of experiences, I've been mostly conscious.

It warrants the question of 'where' does the channeler's bodily ego 'go' while in these states, is it safe to call it a repression, dissociation or a 'controlled possession', not related to soccer/football oddly enough?

Both scenarios manifest crown and solar plexus chakra corruption and a glaring lack of authentic spiritual grounding and purpose, discernment, practical guidance and understanding for connection in the [spwiki]Physical Unit[/spwiki] and so forth due to the skewed interpretations and who knows there may have been some other guidelines purposefully omitted.

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