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Outcome meassures of genuine Spirituality

In the Quora post on:How does someone know if a person is truly enlightened or fake?

the answer entails:

  • never try and replace your father or mother.
  • never try to meet your needs for love, safety, and affection.

I don't truly understand this.

It rings right though, my BSD agrees with this. But I don't understand why. Especially the second statement seems to contradict another statement, which is listed prior to this: always show compassion for all beings.

My problem is this: If you are well on your path, I take it for granted that the things you are confronted with during your daily life will automatically prompt in you an urge to "improve" them in whatever way, especially since most of the things we are confronted with are suboptimal. So, if confronted with a situation where you feel that a person has a lack of needs that are not being met, wouldn't this prompt an urge to attempt to rectify that?

I know that this happens to me a lot. Upon being engaged with another human being, it usually doesn't take long till I feel/understand what they crave for. Most of them need to prove to themselves that they are worthy, which amounts to showing me how they have authority over another human being, or how they handle different situations. (Which frankly turns me very very off) Others simply need love, affection, and an ear which is does not judge them. It is almost absurd how large the percentage of people who I get to know is, sharing with me their stuff, even though we barely know each other. Being non-judgemental seems to shine through to them, so their defense mechanisms lower, and they pour it all out. I listen to them, mostly without commenting at all.

However, I do feel the urge to help them somehow. So sometimes I catch myself how I start manipulating discussions, opinions, sometimes even world-views in order to improve their situation. More to the point, I often feel the urge to be "a pillar" on which they can rely on. The situation is very paradoxical. For on the one hand, I want them to have their needs met, on the other, I feel a deep dislike, even some sort of fear, when I feel that they attach to me emotionally in an unhealthy way. And this is the dilemma. How are they ever supposed to get out of their cage if their needs are never met? It is impossible. It is like trying to escape from smoking while your needs are not being met.

The reason for this post was the following thought experiment:

Assuming we have a person whose needs are not being met chronically. Further assume that every person this person knows has achieved some degree of enlightment, sufficiently high, so as to know that they will not play any "role", say that of one of the parents, nor that of the lover, protector etc. They will never get out of their cage. Even worse, the fact that all these people will not be willing to satisfy the lacking needs of our person means that they actively perpetuate the situation. What does "showing compassion" mean in such a context? "Oh, I can see you crave for x,y, but I can't be the one who fills in that lack." What's wrong about helping others overcoming their unmet needs?

 

More theoretically: We already know that humans are a social race. We need each other. We have several essential needs. Many of those cannot be achieved if we don't work together.

Oh, ok, I just realized that esteem is 100%ly independent of other people. But love? Love seems to be something that needs other people. Giving and receiving affection, for instance is an essential need. Why would an "enlightened being" never try to meet those needs?

 

Hi Aim,  thanks for sharing you thoughts on these things, hopefully I'm clear with what I gathered:

'Oh, ok, I just realized that esteem is 100%ly independent of other people. But love? Love seems to be something that needs other people. Giving and receiving affection, for instance is an essential need. Why would an "enlightened being" never try to meet those needs?'

I guess it depends upon what specific task(s) the 'enlightened being' is supposed to be doing and possibly assist in some type of brainstorming to help people find their own answers on to how to fulfill an unmet need or multiple needs without the questioner being emotionally attached to the person giving the assistance in general.   There may be enlightened beings in the world who are equipped and competent to assist in fulfilling love needs with varying modalities while being ethical, focused, compassionate and neutral.

'What's wrong about helping others overcoming their unmet needs?'

I don't think there's nothing wrong with helping others overcoming their unmet needs. The person who's doing the helping need to know with blunt honesty of what they are able to do and unable to assist with, relationship dynamics and assess with nearly immediate accuracy if the person in need, as you said before Aim --either wants a genuine, compassionate ear, or to just to dump on you then go on their merry way to repeat their toxic pity process on someone else, while you step aside to a quiet place to spiritually disinfect yourself.

The person receiving the help needs to know that they can't just go to any Joe/Flo Schmo without finding out who fits the criteria of being able to help without getting too attached, disappointed or getting taken advantage of, and at least first ask if  the person is willing and if assistance is possible.  Becoming aware on how those needs became unmet in the first place and searching with the consistent and persistent intent to resolve, are the best gifts a person in need can give oneself as it would cut down on the neediness.

Good points rheaah.

I'll work on it - becoming a person who I personally can look up to. (Lol) Anyhow, becoming someone who actually helps and does not perpetuate problems.

But I guess the count of situations where one can truly be of service is very low.

What Quora post are you referring to?

-- All you need is love...

How does one know if a person is truly enlightened, or fake?
It's the post on 23.12.2018.

Btw, Michael, something is wrong with the site. I can't log in sometimes. Depending on from which portal I'm logging in. For instance, I can't log in from the site where you click "forget password". It seems that password field is not linked to the changed password for the field. So even after changing the password, it probably remains the old one, and I can't log in. Entering from the "usual" portal, via lightningpath.org works though.

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