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The Ups and Downs of Running LP groups


So is it counselling? And do we say counselling or can anyone else think of another term?

The term I personally like most is "Facilitator". So, facilitating their way. It is a term that is reasonably devoid of old world baggage.

It does not include notions of hierarchy, and regards the person helping the "client" more of a friend/brother/sister, than someone who is teaching. I had an excellent experience with that once. Long ago, I went to a course on hypnozis. Our "teacher" there insisted on calling him facilitator, rather than teacher. When someone called him master, he instantly said, I'm no master (as far as I can tell, he was damn good at what he was doing), I'm your facilitator, smiling broadly. I think that approach of his made him be less prone to gurutitis, less prone to critique, lowered unreasonable expectations, pushed power back to the people it came from, and instantly avoided hierarchical structuring. He was jovial, and I at least felt like he is my friend rather than my teacher. We laughed alot.

The female in our working group got triggered by Mike - and because she made serious accusations towards Mike do you Aim and everyone else, think that we should be putting a disclaimer out that there that in order for the LP to be effective, one needs to be at a level of psychological, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual functioning and understanding if the LP is going to resonate and be effective?

That would backfire. In most of the cases at least. There are several reasons for this, first of all, that people don't have a proper understanding of what healthy functioning is in the first place. If they had that, no facilitation would be necessary, since they already figured out and/or rejected large parts of the system we live in. However, it would be fitting/possible to note that the course/meeting would seek rather harmonious/gentle people, for instance.

I agree, counselling/mentoring/facilitating in a group is nigh impossible if the clients don't have a given minimum of well-being. The deeper in the forrest they are, the more individually must the facilitation occur.

To be honest, I experienced something similar as you guys did a week ago. I'm meeting a girl for a good month by now. Naturally, we started all sorts of discussions. In many of those, I triggered her hard. It was not my intention. At a certain point, no matter what I said, it triggered her. It made her angry, and she reacted emotionally, violently, and extremely accusatory.

In a nutshell, she has a point of view that views reality as one that is full of privilege. So, for instance, I'm privileged by birth for being a white male. Which, of course, is true. I tried to make her question that point of view, because I saw clearly how it limits her ability to love herself, and see herself as equal to men. Not the fact that privilege exists, but her framework. Privilege exists, but as long as she does not try to live a reality that is devoid of privilege, nothing will change. Be the change you want to see in the world. The problem was basically, she used her point of view to put herself into a "poor me" position, that brutally hinders any personal progress, because she can always put herself into the position of a victim. She does that a lot. So, in order to stop with that, the root of it must be discarded. The root of it is the way she interprets the world by means of privilege.
As stated, she was extremely accusatory. Towards the end of the discussion, I appologized for being born a white male. She didn't get the cue. Her position can be summarized as follows: "you should be sorry for being a white male, because you are part of the problem. Be appologetic for your existence, for you caused much much suffering. Instead of accepting the fact of your privilege, you push that responsibility away by stating you don't "use" your privilege. You naive little thing, you automatically use your privilege, for it's a consistent feature of our society. Just accept that you are privileged and take "responsibility" (with other words, suffer)for it."

Frankly, her position was hermetically closed. I was not able to find a "crack" in her position. It was well thought out, and what's worse, validated daily by society. Breaking her point of view, would equate to un-validating two decades of daily experiences. That's impossible.

So, at the end, I totally gave up on trying to make her understand that she undermines herself by her own point of view. I accepted all the accusations. And merely informed her that I suffered a lot from my own "privilege", being a white male, because it just happens that I rejected that position from the very beginning. By not playing the role of the white male, while being a white male, naturaly, I lost my social position, got badmouthed, got bullied, was not able to get a girlfriend, got ostracized and expulsed from social groups.

She stopped with her accusations at that point.

It took all my willpower to control my own emotions, when she got very emotional and accusatory.

Yesterday a second discussion of a similar sort occurred. This time, she was a lot less accusatory, and even managed to appologize for the last discussion. Even though, this time too, I somehow managed to trigger her, and emotions quickly errupted. She hates it that I attempt to give her her own power back. That is what triggers her. This time, when I noticed I trigger her, I stopped my argumentations, and switched from "presenting", to "questioning". (With other words, I stopped giving any input whatsoever, and merely clarified to us what her position actually is.) Some questions I put made her feel uneasy, for it was quite plain that her position leads directly to consequences that she does not wish for.

This is what I meant in my previous post when stating that the facilitator can use the "contradictions of the system" to render the position of the client contradictory. A change by means of contradiction is a lot more effective than merely stating that a given position/assumption is better than another, for it creates insight in the client. The client understands out of her own power, which gives the insight/argument weight.

I anticipate that we will make progress. She has a peculiar hatred for men, but I think I'm just the right person to undo that, for I am quite feminine/gentle and playful in nature. I'm curious to see how this develops.

Anyhow, it is clear that persons like her cannot attend an LP seminar. It just doesn't work. They need highly personalized, individual support. I'm sure something of the sort happened with Mike and that client as well.

Anger is an emotion that is ellicited when boundaries are crossed. When people are triggered, very often, their archetypes are being questioned/attacked. For her, for instance, it was a question of blame. Who should be blamed for x/y. Before it is possible to erase/question the archetype judgement and punishment from her set of archetypes, it will be necessary to "soften" her strong point of views. Show the real consequences of the given set of assumptions, and allow her to understand out of her own power how debilitating it is. Then, at the right time, it will be possible to breach the question of judgement and punishment. By that time, sufficient time will have past, so that my brother and me will have given her ample opportunities to realize that a life without judgement and punishment is possible. For we are people who discarded that set of archetypes entirely and succesfully act upon it.

Perhaps that we should consider, coming up with power point presentations on themes like healing, connection, & connection outcomes, and as each of us builds on our strengths, we all build curriculum as we go along, so we can create LP programs for yogis, therapists, mental health professionals, educators, massage therapists etc.

Hi Gina - I create the initial "power point" for us in Google Slides:

Maybe we can make another thread about it, as a way to invite anybody who is interested to help out. Personally I think we should move in the direction of trying to do more as a community to jointly create content. We collaborate here in the forums, and also use Google docs to create the actual documents.

The document above hasn't been "filled in" at all. But it is our initial starting point for a powerpoint on the LP concept of [spwiki]connection[/spwiki].

What do you think? May the people of this world be free.

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